Dorothy Ann Honeychurch, Daughters of Norway

Photo Credit: Montana Standard

Oral History Transcript of Dorothy Ann Honeychurch

Interviewers: Ellen Crain and Clark Grant
Interview Date: May 1st, 2019
Location: Butte-Silver Bow Public Archives
Transcribed: January 2020 by Adrian Kien

Ellen Crain: She'll probably be listening in on your interview here in the next couple of months.

Clark Grant: I want to move this microphone closer to you. OK, the closer you are, the better. All right.

Dorothy Ann Honeychurch: Well, just ignore it. It's right in my face. All right. Right. Thank you. Huh? Ok.

Crain: Are we Ok? So, Dorothy, and the first thing I'd like for you to do is to tell us your full name and verbally tell us we have permission to collect this oral history.

Honeychurch: My full name is Dorothy Ann Honeychurch. Maiden name was Drovedoll and it's nice to have changed to a more easily recognizable name, and I was born in North Dakota.

Crain: Where in North Dakota?

Honeychurch: A little town called Arnegard, North Dakota. It's in the western part of North Dakota. The youngest of five siblings. I have five siblings. And I was the youngest of the five until I - we accepted into our family a young baby, George, who was actually my first cousin, but his mother had died in childbirth. So he came to live with us in our home as my brother. And so we kind of raised him, too.

Crain: So when were you born?

Honeychurch: I was born in April of 1925. In fact, it was April 1st of 1925. And my mother always wanted to say I was born on March 32nd because she didn't want an April Fool's baby, but she got one and I was happy. Arnegard is a little town in western North Dakota.

Crain: So I want to stop there and just have you tell us that we have permission to collect this oral history.

Honeychurch: Of course, you do. Yes. I am very proud to be a part of it.

Crain: Good. So you grew up in a small town in North Dakota and your parents came to this country from Norway?

Honeychurch: My father was born in Norway. He came here as an immigrant, came to eastern North Dakota. He lived there a few years. And then he heard about the Homestead Act that was in force that he could get free land if he moved to McKenzie County and proved up a claim there? So he was a homesteader in McKenzie County of North Dakota.

Crain: And when did he come here?

Honeychurch: He came from a town north of Oslo, Norway, and came to live with a cousin of his. And worked on the farm in Mayville, North Dakota. And it was kind of interesting the way he proved up his land, got to be a homesteader, to prove up his land. He heard about it. He thought, “Well, that's a pretty good deal. I get free land if I go out there and live there for five years.” And so he went to Minot which is where the land offices were. And he looked at a map. He didn't get up to McKenzie County because there wasn't possibility of it at the time. And he looked at the map and he said, “Oh, I think I'll take that. That little spot right there.” And so he proved up. He chose his land just by looking at a map. And then they emigrated from Mayville, North Dakota. Got up to Minot. Got on the train, went to Bismarck, went to Williston in what they called an "immigrant car". And in the immigrant car, all his possessions - He had his plows that he owned and I think it was two horses and one cow all traveled in the end in the car with him, along with some other immigrant people. But anyhow, I think that that was very important, that he became and had to live on the land for five years and prove it up in order to have it be his.

Crain: So was he married at the time?

Honeychurch: No, he was not. He was not married. He lived there. That was an interesting one, too, because my mother came out to Arnegard to be a sponsor for her little nephew who was born. Her brother, my mother's brother, lived in Arnegard and she lived in Springfield, Minneso-ta. She, too, is of Norwegian descent. Her parents had come from Norway and she came out to them, to her brother, Hawken, and to be a baptismal sponsor for his son. And she met Olaf Drovedol at church. And she decided, “Oh, that's a good place to stay.” And so she also became a homesteader and homesteaded there in North Dakota and then finally met my [father]. They started dating and she decided that that was pretty good. Pretty good life. So they married.

Crain: Oh, nice, nice. And then he had five children.

Honeychurch: Had five children. And as I say, I was the youngest of five. So that's.

Crain: Are any of your other siblings still alive?

Honeychurch: Yes. I have a sister that lives in Minnesota. She lives in a retirement home in Minnesota. And she was born before I was. She's 96 right now, which is a pretty good deal, I think. And then my younger, I call him my brother. He's the one that came to live in our family and became my brother. Literally. He's still living. He lives in Minneapolis also. George.

Crain: Good. So. And he's younger than you are by?

Honeychurch: Five years. Five years younger.

Crain: So. You were born in the Dakotas. And tell me what kind of a school did you go to?

Honeychurch: I guess it was a one room school. One schoolhouse. One house school, I should say. All grades in one school in that one room. In first grade, I think there were probably eight of us or something like that. Very small school. And I always say, I was in the top ten when I grad-uated from high school there because there were only nine of us in the class. And then I went to St. Olaf College in Minnesota.

Crain: And did you go in that one room schoolhouse from the time you entered school until you graduated?

Honeychurch: Yes, in that one room school. You know, really, it was kind of neat in a way, you know? Actually it wasn't a one room schoolhouse. It was a small school that had different rooms. Two grades in each room. But I did go to a one room schoolhouse one year. When I was in sixth grade, my sister, Ruth, who was nine years older than I, had one year of college, and she came home to Arnegard and they needed a teacher in a little one room school about 14 miles out of town. And my father said, “Well, Ruth has been to college. She could teach, you know.” So after one year of college, she was hired as a teacher in this little one-room schoolhouse. And she lived in the schoolhouse. They partitioned off a little area for her to sleep. And then my dad decided she shouldn't live out there alone. So I lived with her in this one room schoolhouse, in a single bed for the winter, to be her student when I was in sixth grade. So that was kind of a fun thing to do.

Crain: Yeah, that is great. And then you went to St. Olaf College and studied?

Honeychurch: I graduated in home economics and I was a teacher then and I taught in my first job. It was in Plentywood, Montana. And that was exciting because I was the highest paid per-son out of St. Olaf, because I came to Montana where they needed it and I got $1800 a year as my salary when I went to Plentywood, Montana. That was in 1946 or ’47. So that was kind of exciting. Of course, there wasn't any income tax. There wasn't anything like that. I was there for one year and then the next summer I had a chance to go over to Norway to go to summer school as an American student at the University of Oslo. They had a summer program for them.

And my sister and I chose to go there and I thought, “Well, gosh, I'm not going to come back from Norway until middle of September. So I can't teach.” So I had to give up my job. Well, that was foolish. Why didn't I just say, “Get me a substitute?” But I didn't. So I gave up my job in Plentywood. And then I didn't work as a teacher for half a year. And then I got out in Poplar, Montana, taught there for a couple of years.

Crain: So how was that experience in Norway?

Honeychurch: In Norway, it was wonderful. It was a summer school for American students. So it was taught in the English language and they were teaching us about Norwegian politics and Norwegian history and things like that. And it was only a six-week program. But we lived in the dormitory there in Blindern in Oslo. And it was a great experience.

Crain: So did you speak Norwegian in your household?

Honeychurch: My mother and dad spoke it very well, but they didn't teach it to us. They just spoke it to each other. So no, they did not. If they didn't want us to understand, then they didn't. So I didn't learn Norwegian until I went to college. But because I was of Norwegian descent, I had to take Norwegian as a class at St. Olaf's college. I was always appreciative of that because I did learn the basics of it.

Crain: So then when you went to the summer school, you could speak a little.

Honeychurch: Actually everybody talked English. So it was amazing. Yeah. That was good.

Crain: Good. So how long did you teach in Poplar?

Honeychurch: I was there for two years. Only two and a half years, actually, because I finished out one year and then I went to Missoula to teach. And that's another funny thing because at that time that would have been in 1948, I guess. And I just sent a letter to Missoula and said, "If there's an opening in home economics, I'd like to be considered." I didn't interview. I didn't do anything. They called me on the phone. They sent me an interview sheet - one page and I filled it out. And then they called me on the phone and they offered me the job without an interview or anything. Yeah. And so I took a job in Missoula and taught there. And that's where I met my husband, Fred. He was teaching music and I was teaching Home Ec.

Crain: And what was his name?

Honeychurch: It was Fred Honeychurch.

Crain: And what's the origin of the name Honeychurch?

Honeychurch: It's English, actually. His mother was Swedish, but his father's family had come from Cornwall. And so that was very, very English. And because they had bees in that area and apparently their farm was near a church. So they were the honey from the church. That's what I was told. In fact, I went to England one time and researched it a little bit because I thought it would be fun. And I spent time and went to Truro, which is the county seat of that area, and went to the churches in Cornwall and things. And finally up in Truro, they said, “I don't know why you're spending your time over here. All this information is in Salt Lake City at the Mormon Temple.” So that was kind of fun. Of course, I never did get out to the Mormon Temple to search out. But it's kind of fun to go and see the place.

Crain: But it's kind of fun to go and see the place where people have come from. So when you were in Norway, did you see where your father or mother's family came from?

Honeychurch: Oh, yes. My mother's family was from Sunndal. And that was a very rocky area. Beautiful, beautiful area, of course, along the fjord. And my father's family came from north of Oslo. And there are still people living there in the farmhouse where my dad was born. And we have visited there quite often. I've gone there. I call him my cousin. He's really about a third or second cousin or something like that. But that's okay. He's still related. And they always wel-come us so much. In fact, about four years ago, we had a family reunion of our Drovedol family and there were 43 of us that came from America and had our family reunion at that family farm in Norway. It was quite an experience. It was wonderful.

Crain: So did you meet them when you went there in the 40’s when you went there?

Honeychurch: Yes. Yes, of course. My dad was and mother were still living, of course, at that time. And they had gone to Norway that summer also. So we spent quite a bit of time at the fam-ily farm. And traveling around Norway.

Crain: So you taught in Missoula. You met your husband. When did you get married?

Honeychurch: We were married in 1950, December of 1950. So we moved to Butte in 1951. And I guess the reason we moved is because when I got married in Missoula, then I could no longer be hired as a teacher because they did not hire married teachers. So I finished out the year until June of 1951. And then we decided, okay, let's move to Butte and be on our own a little bit. And we did move to Butte and bought a flower shop, which is really a very different idea from teaching. But it was wonderful. Fred was very talented with things of that nature. And I learned.

Crain: Where was the flower shop?

Honeychurch: That was the Butte Floral. It was on West Broadway. 27 West Broadway. And we bought it from Jim King. At that time, it had been, I think, a hundred years old. So it was well established. So we were there at 27 West Broadway for a few years and then they sold the building and we couldn't buy it. So we had to move out and we moved to other locations in Butte.

Crain: So you were in the floral business. I don't think I knew that. So did your husband not teach after that?

Honeychurch: Well, actually, he did. He taught at Butte High for a couple of years. And then I was kind of running the shop, but I didn't like that as well. So it worked out much better when he was able to come back and manage the shop, actually, the flower shop.

Crain: So when you moved here, were women allowed to be married and teach?

Honeychurch: In Butte they were.

Crain: That was a hard fought union issue.

Honeychurch: But I think it was just a couple of years later that they changed that rule in Mis-soula, too. It was different, wasn't it?

Crain: Yeah. It was a different time.

Honeychurch: Completely.

Crain: Yeah. So then you started substitute teaching?

Honeychurch: Yeah. When the children were old enough to be in school.

Crain: How many children did you have?

Honeychurch: I have three. We have three children. Mm hmm. And when Susan, the youngest one, got to be in first grade, I decided I could start subbing a little bit. And that was nice. And I enjoyed that a lot. Then I really wanted to get on as a full time teacher, and that's how I managed that.

Crain: Good. So you went to the Catholic system?

Honeychurch: I taught at Holy Savior for a year. That was a nice, nice experience. It was differ-ent because I wasn't Catholic. They had never had a lay teacher. They only had nuns teaching out there until I came. So it was a really, really different experience. But they accepted me so well and I really enjoyed that year.

Crain: Yeah. Interesting that they had never had a lay teacher.

Honeychurch: Yeah.

Crain: Now, were those Sisters of Charity or were they the BVM's at Holy Savior?

Honeychurch: I am not sure, but I think they were BVM's.

Crain: Yeah, I think you might be right.

Honeychurch: Father Caprich was the priest out there.

Crain: You practice Lutheran?

Honeychurch: Well, Fred was Episcopalian. So when I married Fred, I joined with him in the Episcopal Church. So my children were all baptized in the Episcopal Church. And that was just fine. And Fred died in 1980. Goodness, that's a long time ago. And I stayed there, but then, I don't know, I just reverted back to my Lutheran roots and came back to the Lutheran church. And then that was in. Oh, goodness. Was a few years later. And I've enjoyed it all. But my son is an Episcopal priest and I'm very active in the Lutheran Church. And that's great.

Crain: Oh, good. Well, that's interesting that your son is in . . .

Honeychurch: To me we're all Christians.

Crain: Yeah, I would say that it wouldn't be too much of a leap.

Honeychurch: To me it isn't. We're all the same. We're all Christian people and that's it.

Crain: So your son became an Episcopal priest. That's interesting. Because I've only known you associated with the Glory of Day.

Honeychurch: Yeah. Gold Hill. That's all right. Well, I came to Gold Hill in 1998. That’s when I moved there. So it was a while. A few years.

Crain: So when you grew up, you practiced, Lutheran?

Honeychurch: When I grew up, I was very much Lutheran. Very, very strong in the Lutheran Church. That was the only association we had with anybody was at the church. Everything hap-pened through the church or the school. Everything. And it was right.

Crain: So we were talking before you started the interview, and you said that your father had a great influence on you. I would like you to go into that.

Honeychurch: He always said that he came to America because he wanted to have a good life. He was a younger one. The tradition in Norway at that time was that the older son would inherit the farm and dad wasn't the older son. Dad went to the University of Oslo and studied there. And then he got the opportunity to come to America. So he and another brother, Ivor, and his sister Anna chose to come to America to start a new life. In order to make their life better. And I thought that was just great. And when he came, he came here to be an American. He didn't come here to bring his Norwegian with him. So he didn't ever speak Norwegian to us.

He was an American. And also, he instilled in us the idea that he wanted all of us to become self-sufficient in whatever we did. He didn't care whether we were, you know, what our profession would be as long as we would be self-sufficient as we grew up. And he instilled that in us. And it was wonderful. I thought that was a marvelous thought to keep in my head. And it's nice. Most of us are teachers. My older sister was a nurse and Ruth and Bud and I were all teachers.

Crain: Interesting. So you said your mom had homesteaded as well. Did she get a farm near your father and then combine the land?

Honeychurch: No. My father chose this one corner and then his sister Anna, who was with him, chose a quarter that was just across the road. So they were together. My mom, when my mother came out, she bought out a fellow who had proved up some land and was out of town about ten or twelve miles south of where Dad's was. And my mother's name was Anna also. So Mother bought that property and had to live on that property until it had proved up the five years of ne-cessity in order to be free. And so she lived there and my dad lived on his property. And when they were married, my dad went to live with her to finish out her five-year term, and then they moved back to dad's place again. Yeah, but she was a she was a homesteader herself.

Crain: She must have been a very strong woman to do that because that's not an easy task.

Honeychurch: No, it is not. I think the Homestead Act was early on. It was in 1916 that he [Dad] came out and that's when they kind of really proved - they approved of things in McKen-zie County. And that's, of course, I think I read that there are like 92 percent of the of the people that proved up the homesteaders were of the Scandinavian descent. So, yeah, it's in that area very, very strong.

Crain: Yeah, very interesting. So where is your mother educated?

Honeychurch: She didn't go to college. She was a seamstress. And very talented in that manner. She didn't have any college education, but she had her high school and she had the education of life and that was good. In fact, when Dad asked her to marry him, she said, "Oh, you have to go back to Norway first and see your old girlfriend, because I'm not going to marry you till you know that you want to live in America." So he had to go back to visit his family and he came back and said, "Well, this is what I want."

Crain: Interesting.

Honeychurch: The fact that my dad and his brother and his sister, Anna, came together, I think of this so often, how it must have affected their mother. To think that three of her children were leaving to go to America. And she may never see them again. And actually she never did see her daughter again.

Crain: So she married and never did go home again?

Honeychurch: No, she married a fellow here in America and never did get back to Norway. And I think that is so sad as a mother and a grandmother.

Crain: Yeah. I think of all those young immigrants and how strong they must have been. Some of those kids were like 10 or 12 years old on a ship and just came to this country with nothing and built lives. It's amazing to me.

Honeychurch: Dad was 21 when he came. That's a that's a good age.

Crain: And was he educated?

Honeychurch: He was. He had gone to University of Norway in Oslo. And then when he came to America, he was kind of the manager of a farm of his cousin's. And he wanted to learn to speak English well. So he went to Concordia College for one semester in order to, in his words, in order to speak like the Americans to do. And he spoke German very fluently. So he got along real well with all the farmers that were there because of the German community.

Crain: So did you take your children to Norway?

Honeychurch: I have been blessed. I have been to Norway many times. And yes my children have been with me. They were with me at the time of the family reunion. All of them, my chil-dren and grandchildren were all together. Just marvelous to think that we were able to do that. But it keeps our heritage in our heart so much to be able to be friends. And, of course, in this day and age, you can FaceTime them and talk to the people that are living there on the farm and find out what they're doing and their grandchildren and all.

Crain: Yeah, that is really a marvelous technology. Yeah. So you FaceTime?

Honeychurch: Oh yes, I guess so.

Crain: That is pretty awesome. You're a modern woman.

Honeychurch: I have grandchildren that force it on me. In fact, right now I have one grand-daughter traveling in Central America. She just left. That's about three days ago. She's going to travel for six weeks all by herself around Central America. And she hasn't called me directly, but she calls her parents and they Face Timed them already. And it's amazing, isn't it?

Crain: Yeah, it's astounding. But it's a great technology to keep people in touch. And you can really see people and be sure they're really OK.

Honeychurch: And it frightens Grandmother just a little bit that she's traveling alone. This beau-tiful blonde gal in her 30's. But she's an independent kid. And that's good.

Crain: Yeah. So I wonder where she got that.

Honeychurch: I have no idea.

Crain: I do. So when you were widowed, your kids, were they raised when . . .?

Honeychurch: Yes. My youngest was still in college. Two of them were in college and one was teaching. So they were grown.

Crain: Good. And then were you still working at the time?

Honeychurch: Yeah, I guess I've been working all the time. I enjoy working.

Crain: So when did you retire from education?

Honeychurch: I can't believe this. It had to be 1983, and that's 35 years ago. Isn't that amazing? My husband died 38 years ago and I taught for three more years. I went back to teaching, of course, and he had the flower shop. But I've had a good life. I've had a wonderful life as a wid-ow too.

Crain: You have a really strong group of friends, and you belong to some really marvelous women's organizations.

Honeychurch: That's Butte. Butte accepted me and took me in. And I am just a part of every-body. I can depend on anybody. I can call you, Ellen, if I needed something and you'd come and help me.

Crain: Yeah, absolutely. So you're a member of Homer Club?

Honeychurch: Homer Club, that's correct.

Crain: When did you join Homer Club?

Honeychurch: I don't know exactly. But it was after I had retired from teaching. So it would have been in probably, I'd say, '85, '86. But Daughters of Norway, I figured that out, I joined in 1953. So that's 65 years. And PEO I joined the same year. 65 years in PEO.

Crain: What is PEO?

Honeychurch: Well, it's an educational organization that promotes education and we have a col-lege innovative. It's educational opportunities for anybody. That's about it. I should say. Great organization, too.

Crain: Yeah. That's a long time to belong to an organization.

Honeychurch: Yes, it is. But I'm proud of it.

Crain: It's tremendous because both of those organizations have made pretty strong contribu-tions to our community and the people in our community.

Honeychurch: They have made my life wonderful. That's what I say now. I have my church friends. I have my Homer Club friends. I have my PEO friends. And I could go any place and get help if I need it.

Crain: Yeah, it's rich.

Honeychurch: Yeah. I have families in Butte. Very much so. Even though I don't have any chil-dren here in Butte. I don't want to move. I want to live right here.

Crain: So your Daughters of Norway. The men's organization has collapsed. When did that col-lapse?

Honeychurch: I'm not sure when it was the Sons of Norway. I belonged over in Anaconda. We never did have an organization over here in Butte. I belong to the Anaconda Lodge. They still have a lodge in Bozeman and in Helena. And so I'm what you call a member at large. I don't be-long to any given lodge. Just still a member. That's all.

Crain: So tell us some of the activities that you do as the Daughters of Norway.

Honeychurch: Oh, of course, we have our 17th of May celebration. 17th of May is the same as Fourth of July. 17th of May is Independence Day for Norway and we try to celebrate it here in Butte. As our lodge we raise the flag at the courthouse on that day and sing our national anthem for the public and serve cookies and goodies and stuff at the courthouse to anybody who comes in. And it's just a special sort of day for us. We get dressed up in our Norwegian dresses. They're called bunads, Norwegian national dress. And kind of show off a little bit. And that's a good idea.

Crain: It's really a wonderful celebration.

Honeychurch: It is a wonderful celebration. I love to tell the story of one year on the 17th of May. The mayor was there and he helped us raise the flag, the Norwegian flag. And we sang our song. And half an hour later our flag came down and the Irish flag came up because . . .

Crain: The Irish president.

Honeychurch: She was in town that day. And I thought that was kind of neat.

Crain: It was a very international day. And the best cookies in the world can be had on the 17th of May.

Honeychurch: We enjoy that.

Crain: And a couple of years ago, your organization was 100.

Honeychurch: Our lodge was 100. And I'm pretty proud of the fact that I have been the nation-al president in 1960 when my daughter Susan was born. So that's a long time ago too isn't it. But at that point of time, there were only ten active lodges in the Daughters of Norway in the United States. And now there are many more lodges. Must be 17 or 18, at least, in various places. They've organized in Iowa and Minnesota, and primarily in California is where it started. And Butte is the only lodge. There used to be another lodge in Montana. I think it was in Great Falls. But they didn't last very long. But we stuck it out so I'm lodge president.

Crain: And so as national president, tell us a little more about that.

Honeychurch: Well, it was a matter that we could visit each of the lodges in the nation. As I said, mostly California, Nevada, Oregon. That's where we visited during the year. And we have a convention every other year. In fact, we're having a convention again in July now at Seaside, Or-egon.

Crain: When you come together and you plan or talk about?

Honeychurch: Heritage a lot. Keeping our heritage going and the pride that we have in heritage. As well as, a lot of the lodges sponsor scholarships for the youth. Manage whatever they can. And in the town, they celebrate their independence days and their special days. So it's a social organization. Mostly.

Crain: And when you were young, did you celebrate those days within your family?

Honeychurch: Oh, of course.

Crain: Did you? And tell us how you would celebrate those.

Honeychurch: Well, Christmas, of course, we have our special foods. I like lutefisk and lefse and irmagarutten. And all of the Norwegian goodies that we have to have. And then I suppose we are a very close knit family. And I still am. I'm very close to my grandchildren, very much so. They call me maybe every other week at least it seems like most of them one way or another. And I'm so proud that they have attained good things in their life. I have two granddaughters in Seattle, one of them is a doctor, a medical doctor, specialist and the other one's a pilot. And the third daughter in that family is a speech therapist. She's just got her master's in speech therapy, art therapy actually. She's going to do therapy of art. They're driven. I think they have my dad's philosophy in mind that they want to do something that can sustain them.

Crain: That's a very essential thing a woman could be taught.

Honeychurch: I hope so. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Crain: To be able to manage herself.

Honeychurch: She can manage herself. That's right. I don't want them to be too independent. I want them to be fair with everybody else, too. But they have an independence that they can be proud of, and that's good. And I have two great grandchildren, two boys and a girl, which I'm very proud of. Two boys, Charlie and Thomas and a little girl named Paisley. I'm proud of them. And they call me Bestemor. Because they have their grandmas. And they said, "What can I call them?" Well, "Bestemor" is grandmother in Norwegian. And they chose Bestemor. And I'm so happy about that. I think it's great.

Crain: How long did you guys own the Butte Floral Company?

Honeychurch: Well we bought it in 1952 and sold it in 1979. Before Fred died.

Crain: And did he retire from that or was he not well?

Honeychurch: He was not well at all the last years. He was very ill. He had a stroke that really impaired him. And it's difficult to say, but he became an alcoholic that just took his life literally because he could not function as he should. And it wore him out. It was real difficult for me to be able to say those words even. But it is a disease that we have to face. And Fred was such an honorable man and had such a wonderful life and such pride. And it was hard to see him degen-erate, to give up on himself. It's a very hard thing.

Crain: So those last years must have been very hard on you.

Honeychurch: I just didn't face it. I tried to just slide along. You know, when I look back at it. In a way, I suppose if I had tried to face it more myself, I couldn't have done anything anyhow. Because that's not for somebody else to take care of. Yeah. The person has to take care of them-selves.

Crain: Yes, that's really true.

Honeychurch: And you know that's life.

Crain: Well, it is life.

Honeychurch: Since then, I have certainly become a much more - The word is pushy. I guess. That's what my kids say, anyhow. I am independent, pushy, take charge. You just do it. That's all.

Crain: Well, you do because you have to. There is no choice. Really. Still. And when you're strong enough, I think you can pick carry on.

Honeychurch: And I'm blessed that I have been strong enough. That I have enough faith in my-self. And faith in my life and my family that I can carry on. And I'm going to carry on.

Crain: Yes, you are. And you still live in your own home?

Honeychurch: I do. I can handle it financially because I own it. Because my children are so good to me. And I want to stay there as long as I possibly can. Naturally, I am looking at moving into a retirement community. For my sake and the sake of my family.

Crain: Eventually you get to a place where you think, well . . .

Honeychurch: I better do something. But, you know, as long as I can still drive my car and be independent and be sensible. I don't drive a lot of night because I want to be more careful. And I always stay on the well-lit streets. I don't go down side streets at nighttime. For my sake and everybody else's sake.

Crain: Yes. Good decisions. Not everyone makes those good decisions.

Honeychurch: And I hope that if the time comes that I should not drive, that my children will tell me, "Mom, give me the keys." Yeah, and I will.

Crain: So do your children come here quite often, or do you see them?

Honeychurch: I'm blessed. I have children that come whenever. If I fall and have been in the hospital or something. Susan's here in an hour and a half. She lives in Bozeman. And any one of my children will come at the moment's notice. They just.

Crain: And your son, who's the Episcopal priest? Where does he practice?

Honeychurch: He's in California. He lives in Altadena, which is a suburb of Los Angeles. And he retired for a while. And then he found retirement wasn't satisfying him. He needed to get back into it and they needed a priest. And so he has a parish that is within driving distance of where he lives. So he's back with the parish again. His wife is also a priest and she is the CEO of a seminary in Claremont, California, Southern Episcopal Seminary. So they're working hard. And they knew they were not happy being retired, completely. And yet they're looking forward to retirement. I shouldn't say they're not happy.

Crain: Well, I think that there are levels of work that you want to do.

Honeychurch: I think so too.

Crain: I would say that you have not retired. Necessarily.

Honeychurch: I don't want to retire. My philosophy is that your attitude is terribly important. That's one of the most important things you can have is good attitude. And then don't say, No. Say I'll try.

Crain: I was impressed when we did that Norwegian exhibit. When your organization was 100. I mean, you were really, that was a big event to organize and you were on top of it. You had a good team. But I thought, wow, you know, that was really impressive. And you guys did a great job of pulling all that together.

Honeychurch: Thank you for letting us do it.

Crain: Well, we were we were thrilled to have it here. In fact, it really kind of inspired the whole…

Honeychurch: Community.

Crain: I noticed that. That was a great thing. So tell us what you see in your future. Tell us what you see in your future.

Honeychurch: Well, my future is that I want to reach the age of 100. And I think I will. I may not. Who knows? I'm blessed because apparently I've got good bones because I've fallen a few times when I was at a convention in San Francisco. Two years ago now. I fell down a flight of stairs. The escalator, in fact. And somehow in my mind, my granddaughter at one time told me, "Grandma, when you fall, you just relax and roll." Relax and roll. It must have come because I just rolled down the steps. Didn't break a thing. Had a lot of bruises but didn't break a thing. And so I just I'm lucky. I'm very blessed. So I have strong bones. I have strong willpower, I think. And strong won't power, too, sometimes. I've learned to say, "No" which is really im-portant.

Crain: So when you were in education and a teacher, did you always teach home economics?

Honeychurch: Basically, yes. When I first got on with the Butte school district, I didn't. I taught over at East Junior High and I taught a little bit of science. I don't even remember every-thing. Montana history, anything that they needed to have teach until something opened in Home Ec. But primarily Home Ec, and then guidance counseling. I finished being the dean of girls at East before I retired. So that's how I retired and that was good.

Crain: Did you enjoy that?

Honeychurch: I enjoyed it a lot. After I finished, I found out I realized that it was kind of stressful. But at the time, I enjoyed it. I was able to relate to the kids real well, I thought, and to the parents and any problems that came up. But when I retired, my children kept telling me, "But Mom, you were really stressed out sometimes." And I didn't realize it at all. So. But science, I have to tell you one thing. When I graduated from Saint Olaf with a minor in general science, you know, because I had to in order to teach Home Ec. OK. I got to Plentywood. And the first year of teaching and I taught senior chemistry and I said I didn't know chemistry, but I had a general science minor. So they put me in. So I taught senior chemistry, which is just terrible. I studied every night for three, four hours, I think, to stay ahead of the kids, you know. And not too many years ago, I visited with somebody who had been in my class that year, and she said, "You know, Mrs. Honeychurch, we really learned because you kept it down to our level and we could understand it." Well, I had to. I didn't know anything beyond that.

Crain: So you where you were studying that textbook?

Honeychurch: Oh, I studied hard. That was awful.

Crain: So Plentywood is pretty isolated up in Northeastern Montana. And, you know, sort of that little border town.

Honeychurch: Close to Montana. Close to North Dakota. And close to Canada.

Crain: How did you find that environment there? Because I think those isolated places that are on the border have a different . . .

Honeychurch: Well, that's true. There wasn't a lot of social life there. And I remember that as teachers, sometimes we would go to a bar, but we had to drive to the state line to get a drink be-cause you couldn't or wouldn't dare get a drink in Plentywood. At that time. That was one thing. It was very isolated.

Crain: And the teachers were held up to, I think, a higher standard.

Honeychurch: I think so. And that was okay. But I had an uncle that lived in Plentywood. My mother's brother. And I think that's what drew me there. And the salary of $1800 a year was more than anybody else got from my classes.

Crain: The Dakotas didn't pay their teachers very well?

Honeychurch: Well, I don't know why Montana did. Of course, they all teased me when I went to Montana because there were more men in Montana. There were more boys in Montana than in other places because it was during the war and everybody was in the army except the farmers.

Crain: And you how did you like Poplar? Would that be Indian reservation?

Honeychurch: It was Indian reservation. I had a good life there, actually. I lived in a lady's home, just rented a room with her and didn't have a lot of social life because it was impossible. Really wasn't. I needed it. I needed the son of the pharmacist, which was kind of fun in a way. I had a social life. Well, another thing in Poplar, I dated a fellow that came from Fairview, actual-ly, into Poplar to work. He worked in Poplar and I would go back to Arnegard for the weekends lots of time to my parents' home. And I came back and I can't think of his name right now, Da-vid. He had been killed. He had been shot by one of the Indians in Poplar. And they couldn't do anything about it because he had furnished beer for a party that they were having. The party got out of hand and he got killed. But it was illegal to furnish liquor to Indians at that time. And so they didn't do anything about it. It was hard to realize. Yep. He was excused because he had furnished them the liquor that caused them to get drunk.

Crain: So do they still allow alcohol to be sold on reservations?

Honeychurch: I don't know.

Crain: I don't think they do. I think that's still a standing rule.

Honeychurch: This would have been in 1948, '49.

Crain: Well, what a tremendous, tragic experience.

Honeychurch: Well, I didn't know him real well. But the fact that even happened.

Crain: Yeah, that's a that's a pretty dramatic thing for a young girl to try to wrap her head around.

Honeychurch: It really was.

Crain: Because you kind of think the law will take care of those things.

Honeychurch: Well, the law did. It followed the law. He was excused because he had furnished the liquor.

Crain: Very dramatic.

Honeychurch: That's certainly beside the point, isn't it?

Crain: So when you went to Missoula, did you really enjoy that? Because it would have been a big city for you.

Honeychurch: Oh, it was tremendous. And driving to Missoula. I had never been there. And driving from North Dakota to Missoula. I was just in ecstasy at the beauty of the land. It was just beautiful. Down the river and it was just absolutely beautiful. And Missoula was great. They ac-cepted me as a teacher. And then, of course, I met Fred and we started dating quite early on. I became part of the community in Missoula just immensely. It was great. Just like when I came to Butte. I just was accepted right now.

Crain: So did you go back to school? I know as a teacher you would be required to take educa-tional courses. Tell us a little bit about some of those courses that you took.

Honeychurch: Well, I got my Masters in Education down in Dillon, and I traveled down there at nighttime along with the others, just my traveling night courses. I remember one of the classes was statistics. I never did do very well with statistics, but I finished. I was okay.

Crain: Good. And did you go to school every year? Every summer? Would you take a course?

Honeychurch: No, I did it all by night classes traveling to Dillon. That one summer that I went to summer school in Norway really didn't count too much because it was just kind of an excur-sion. I'm sure that I got credit for it.

Crain: So you've been to England, to Norway and anywhere else?

Honeychurch: You bet.

Crain: Well, tell us about it.

Honeychurch: I have a sister Ruth, the one that I lived with when I was in sixth grade in this country school house. But Ruth lived in Bozeman. Her husband also died rather early. So she was a widow, teaching. And I was in Butte, a widow. And so we traveled together with Elder Hostel, primarily. I worked with Elder Hostel a lot.

Crain: So what is Elder Hostel?

Honeychurch: Elder Hostel. Well, it's called Rhodes Scholar now, but it's an organization for retired people to spend a week at any given place and get a lot of information about that place. For instance, when I was in Yellowstone Park, I might have probably lived in West Yellowstone or we might have lived like right inside the park, too. And spend a whole week there. And there would be maybe 20 people, 25 people that would pay to come to the week there and get infor-mation about the park, about the wildlife, about the vegetation, about the geysers, about every-thing, and get a full, intense information about that particular area. And that was wonderful. And Ruth and I would go. We traveled all over with Elder Hostel. In fact, we're proud of the fact that I have been on all seven continents. We went to Antarctica with Elder Hostel even. But I have been on every single continent and enjoyed every bit.

Crain: With Elder Hostel?

Honeychurch: A couple of them were not with Elder Hostel, but most of them were.

Crain: What was your favorite?

Honeychurch: Oh, my favorite could never be told. I would always revert to Norway because I enjoy the fjords and everything there. The heritage of it all. It was fun to be in Antarctica with the penguins.

Crain: Were you there for a week?

Honeychurch: We lived on a ship, a Russian vessel. And so. And then we took excursions on land. And, of course, the rule was that you could never approach a penguin within 30 feet. You weren't supposed to do that. But of course, if you stood still, we said, "The penguins couldn't read." And they would walk. And they'd walk right across our feet and go on the way, you know. So we were really close to a lot of the penguins. It was a wonderful experience, learning about Antarctica and about the habitat.

Crain: And on a Russian vessel.

Honeychurch: We lived on it. Yeah. The Elder Hostel was housed on a Russian vessel. A Rus-sian ship. So we slept on the ship and had our classes on the ship. Except for those when we would go on land. We didn't get to see many people in Antarctica because we just visited the centers or the lands, the different islands. Then in Australia, we were right in Sydney. And then we saw the coral reefs, of course. Well, I could go on and on.

Crain: Well, go.

Honeychurch: Of course, I've been in Australia a couple of times, too, because my granddaugh-ter Anna, who is the doctor, did her internship, a year after residency. She spent a year in Aus-tralia. Learning about her trade of doing surgery. Anything above the neck. And so she does si-nus surgery or cancer of the brain or anything. And what she studied and learned and it's tre-mendous - is that you don't have to crack the skull open to get at the brain. She goes through the nose of all things and does surgery through the nose to extract anything. So I spent I visited her when she was in Sydney.

Crain: Australia is an interesting country. Did you go to the Galapagos?

Honeychurch: Yes, with the Elder Hostel I went to the Galapagos Islands. Again, of course, we lived on a ship because there's no housing there. We went on excursions all through. Saw all of the wonderful, wonderful things of the Galapagos. The habitat and Darwin's theory of evolution and all that stuff from the Galapagos. It's amazing.

Crain: We worked with the archivist for the Galapagos Island. Comes to Butte all the time.

Honeychurch: That right?

Crain: Yeah. She lives in Boise. They have a research center and they stay at the research center. But they are only allowed to stay there for about three to four months. And then they have to go back to the states. They find that to keep them mentally healthy. They have to go home quite of-ten. Their archives are really text books and scientific study, though. They don't have very many manuscripts, and a lot of published materials, you know, scientific studies, things on the habitat in the land. And it's interesting.

Honeychurch: I don't remember the year that I was there, but I'm sure we were probably at the research center quite a bit. But we were able to see the animals and get close. The blue-footed boobies and stuff like that. The birds and the animals and swim along with the dolphins and eve-rything. I have had a marvelous, marvelous life.

Crain: Well, you know, I knew you traveled a lot because people would say, "Oh, Dorothy Ann is back from her travels." And I thought, well that was wonderful that you went with Elder Hos-tel because you really do get that intense education with the experience. So did you go to Central America where your granddaughter is now?

Honeychurch: I don't think I was ever - I'm sure I was someplace in Central America, but I don't know where. In fact, when Molly was here a little bit ago, she made me write down where I had been and I have been in 50, no in 48 different countries, I guess. She insists that I'm going to go with her and catch two other countries that I haven't been in. I don't know when, but that's okay. So I have been in 48 different countries around the world.

Honeychurch: And Norway is your favorite.

Crain: I would say it would have to be, correct. The most unique would have to be the Galapa-gos, I'm sure.

Crain: Yeah. Well, that would be the most unique. It sounds like you had a pretty remarkable time in Antarctica.

Honeychurch: Oh, Antarctica was so much fun because we were able to be really free about things. We could walk any place and we saw the penguins as they would scoot, you know, slide down into the water and things, and it was to experience that. To actually see it. Instead of see it on a movie. It was just amazing. And, of course, we were never allowed to take anything out of Antarctica except pictures. Don't leave anything and don't take anything out. But I did. I sneaked out some little feathers from the penguins, you know, the little down feathers. And when I would give talks about Antarctica to the first or second graders, I always said, "I'm not supposed to have these, but . . ." And they were amazed. They were impressed with the fact that I had little down feathers from the penguins.

Crain: So when you came home, you would go back to school and share your information.

Honeychurch: I did a lot of talking about it, especially with the first and second graders in Bo-zeman or in Butte. And that was such a neat experience for me, because the children were just, I have a lot of pictures and I had sort of a slideshow that I would tell about and I had books about penguins and stuff. And one time I was out at West Junior High and I had given a presentation about this to the first or second grade I don't remember what. And then I was leaving and this one little girl, she wasn't supposed to be in the hallway, but she just ran down the hallway and hugged me around my legs and said, "Oh, thank you." And to me, that was so impressive, to think that I had made an impression on the kids. It pleased me that she was able to do that.

Crain: I think when people see real people having travel experiences, I think kids realize that they could also have travel experiences. And I think those are really essential gifts that you're giving.

[01:02:29]

Honeychurch: I think one thing about my life that I enjoy having is the fact that I still have peo-ple. I go to the grocery store now, "Oh Mrs. Honeychurch, I had you when I was in seventh grade and I remember you did this," and I made an impression to that girl. And that to me has been real important, to feel that people are remembering me with honor and pride

Crain: And that you have a legacy.

Honeychurch: And that I have left a legacy. Correct.

Crain: I think that is important.

Honeychurch: And it pleases me. I work now up at the theater. I take tickets first for things up at the theater, as a volunteer. And it's amazing how many people come in and say, "Aren't you Mrs. Honeychurch?" You know? "Oh, yeah. I had you when I was in high school. You were subbing up there one time," or something. I made an impression. And that just pleases me a lot.

Crain: And that they will talk to you later.

Honeychurch: They say it with pride and honor, rather than say, "Huh yeah, I remember you. Yeah, I remember her."

Crain: Because there are those.

Honeychurch: You bet. And there are.

Crain: So you take tickets at the Mother Lode.

Honeychurch: Yes, I do that as a volunteer.

Crain: And you do The Daughters of Norway. And you do the lefse lunch or dinner at the church.

Honeychurch: At the church. And we always have had our lefse sale. We have a sale just be-fore Thanksgiving and the general public really seems to enjoy that. Having that opportunity. I don't know what we're going to do this year because we cannot go out to the mall anymore be-cause Herberger's has closed. But I think we have another venue that we're looking at to have our sale just before Thanksgiving.

Crain: Oh, good. And so what else are you involved in?

Honeychurch: Well, I have PEO, of course, and I have bridge clubs that I enjoy. Two different bridge clubs. We don't meet in the summer. And that's OK. Up at the church, we have something called Steven's Ministry and I get a little involved with that and I enjoy that a lot.

Crain: What is Steven's ministry?

Honeychurch: Well, Steven's Ministry is where people that want a person to talk to that is com-pletely confidential. We never divulge anything that we talk about. Ever. They can just talk. If they want to talk to me about their whatever they want to talk about. If they have something just to get off their chest, they can say that and it's completely confidential. I don't talk about it. It's open to everybody.

Crain: So do you go through a little training with that?

Honeychurch: Yes, indeed. First, we have a training and then we meet once a month together just to support each other.

Crain: Yeah, sometimes that's . . .

Honeychurch: That's important. It's a necessary thing.

Crain: Yeah. Very good.

Honeychurch: Yep. And then, of course, there are activities at the church. Funerals. Dinners for after the funerals. That's always interesting.

Crain: And you have your luncheons.

Honeychurch: Luncheons that we have. To me, the church is part of my family that is in Butte. A very important part of my family.

Crain: So you took Kristi O'Leary to Norway with you?

Honeychurch: Yeah. We went just on a trip together. And as a tourist. And that was interesting. We went to places that I'm not normal for tourist opportunities. The gal who has these trips was born in Norway. Lives in Washington now. But she has these excursions that she takes and she takes us to places that are off the beaten path. And Kristi and I went with her one year on this and it was just a marvelous trip. And I have been blessed. I have been able to be with Linda an-other time, with my family, with two of my girls and my granddaughters. We went on a trip to-gether with Linda one time. And that is I say, we get to go to the out of the way places - to two waterfalls and fjords. It's been great. And great that I'm able to have with me my children and grandchildren. I've been with them a lot going over in Norway.

Crain: That's great. Because that is really a passing down of your culture to them.

Honeychurch: I think that it is. And I also I think it is a way of keeping them as a unit, because they are very close cousins. We're a very close knit family, because they get to see each other and talk to each other. Of course, again, technology is so good there because they Face Time each other and they know what's going on between themselves daily. And that's good.

Crain: That's a good thing about Facebook.

Honeychurch: That's a good thing about it. Yeah.

Crain: Clark, do you have any questions of Dorothy Anne?

Grant: I don't believe so. I'm curious with Pastor Tim leaving. What are your thoughts on that?

Honeychurch: My thoughts on that. I'm sad, personally, because I feel that he has been very, very good as far as I'm concerned about our church. I also understand that he has been here for I guess, seven years now. And that is a normal thing for pastors to be, you know, five, six, seven, eight years. And then they go on to another parish in order to bring their expertise there. And for our parish to see where we are and learn from that. And I, personally, am sad because I think that he, and especially his wife, has been excellent for Butte.

Butte is losing two wonderful people, I think, because his wife, Sandy, has been so active in the LGBT community. And she is a hospice worker and pastor there in her church. I feel sad for that. But I feel good for them. And I can relate to that because my son has been an interim pastor like that. After he finished, retired, supposedly, he then became an interim pastor. And he spent a year and a half at Santa Barbara in California. And then he spent, I don't know how many months it was at Costa Mesa, California. And now he's back being a full time pastor again. So I can relate to that. And it is important for them, but it's also important for the congregation to see where we are and to look at ourselves.

Grant: Yeah, I'm going to miss him. And Sandy.

Honeychurch: But, you know, time goes on both for them and for us as a congregation. So. And now as Tim says, as our pastor says, they moved to Butte and Sandy, his wife, followed him and found a job here. Now, she found a wonderful job that she is happy about in Alaska. And he is following her. He doesn't have a job there. But he will find one. He'll find work to do. And he'll be good. So that's my take on it personally.

Crain: All right. Is there anything else you want to tell us about yourself for your life, Dorothy Anne?

Honeychurch: Well, just that I am such a happy person. Because I have had a good life, and I really think a lot of it is attitude. I look at it as a positive thing. Positiveness and attitude. Rather than being negative about everything. I try to look at the positive side. And to me, that has satis-fied me a lot. And it makes me happy. I'm a happy person because of it. I think. And people are so good to me.

Crain: Well, and I would say that in my life, I see you as a person to look up to. I have seen you give of yourself in ways I don't think you realize.

Honeychurch: Well, thank you. That's nice.

Crain: Because you're everywhere contributing. And that's a really important thing, Dorothy Anne.

Honeychurch: Well, that's important to hear, I think. Important that you would tell me that, be-cause it makes me feel that I'm worth something.

Crain: You are. And I have seen you. I mean, I know that you have given to other organizations of your time and your energy. And those are really important things to give because it's easy to write a check. Not so easy to stand at the Mother Lode, take tickets for a couple of hours. And to stand behind the counter at the church making funeral lunches. And those are things that are really wonderful gifts.

Honeychurch: Well, I've always said this, too, that I don't like to belong to an organization where I'm just a member and I'm not contributing because I feel if you're a member, you should contribute. Now, I do belong to an organization that I'm no longer active in. 80K, it's a sorority, but I have put in my time and I have gone to new things. And you can't spread yourself too thin. You have to pick and choose what you want to do. So that's my philosophy.

Crain: Well, thank you.

Honeychurch: Thank you. I've enjoyed this. Thank you.

Crain: It's been nice. Great. OK.

Grant: When you moved from Missoula to Butte, was the Interstate in?

Honeychurch: Not all of it. See, that was in 1951. That we moved here.

Grant: Yeah.

Honeychurch: You know the trip going to Missoula was kind of scary. We were much closer to the river. No. A lot has been done since then. Man.

Grant: I'll say.

Honeychurch: Good and bad.

Grant: Yeah. Do you spend much time in Missoula now?

Honeychurch: Not enough.

Grant: OK.

Honeychurch: I don't know. I have good friends there, but I don't see them as often as I'd like.

Grant: It's too busy for me there.

Honeychurch: Well, that's what people say. It's changed so much. Just like Bozeman has changed so much. You know, I've seen such a change there.

Grant: I don't really go over the pass much. I don't go east.

Crain: I met a man from White Sulfur Springs. He said I rarely cross the Divide. I thought that was really an interesting way to put it.

Grant: That's what George Merin told me. You will never go east of the Divide, west of Missou-la, south of Dillon, or north of Helena. You will just die somewhere in there.

Crain: Somewhere in the batholith.

Honeychurch: I go if I can, though. No, I like to travel. My children don't want me to drive to Minneapolis anymore. They want me to fly. But I certainly could. I feel I could. That's why I re-spect their thinking.

Crain: So the scary thing is, is that if you would get a flat tire or something, because, you know, I think 10 years ago you could get out and kind of start managing a little bit. But I think, you know, you get to a place in life and think, well, if something happened, I might . . .

Honeychurch: Well, that's true. I still feel strong enough that I could get out and I'd stand there. "Could you please will you help me?" And people are always willing to.

Crain: People are, for the most part, good.

Honeychurch: I don't want to be so pessimistic that I can't let people come and visit me at my house or something.

Crain: Your house. You have a lovely home.

Honeychurch: But just yesterday, a fella wondered if I had any license plates that were person-alized because he's a plate collector. A license plate collector. And he wondered if I had any old license plates with HCCH on them. You know, personalized plates. So I went home and I looked and I found some. I haven't given them to him because I thought maybe my children want that first. So I called Sandra my daughter. And she said, "Oh no, Mom, don't let him come. Don't let him come to your house to pick it up. Because, you know, you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't let anybody come to your house." And I thought I don't want to be that way.

Crain: I'm that way.

Honeychurch: Well, she's that way.

Crain: But, you know, I think we here, live in a smaller place now where people aren't that threatened. But I have experiences because people see me in the newspaper and they kind of feel like they know you. And they approach me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable. Because, you know, they're having breakfast reading the newspaper and there I am. And they feel like and it has created well . . .

Honeychurch: Okay. Yeah.

Crain: You know you just feel kind of like, "Just back away a little bit."

Honeychurch: That's the generation Sandra's in. She's just "Nope, you gotta be careful. Mom, why don't you lock your house when you leave?" I don't do that. During the daytime, I don't. I look it at night, always.

Crain: I live on a really busy street, too. We don't lock the door.

Honeychurch: Well, I live on a busy street. I feel safe. I have wonderful neighbors.

Crain: Yeah. And that makes the difference.

Honeychurch: Jim Faith watches out for me all the time. He's just real good.

Crain: All right. We'll let you loose. Thank you.

Honeychurch: Well, thank you. I feel honored, but I feel incompetent. Let me put it that way.

Crain: Dorothy Ann that would never be you.

Honeychurch: Thank you.

Crain: Thank you.

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